I Forgot That I Know That I Know
Jul 19th, 2006 by Hugh
With some hesitation, we enrolled the girls in vacation Bible school at a local church (not ours).
With that intro, you can guess where this is going.
Day 1: my daughters came home singing I Know That I Know That I Know. I bristled at this because Eric is ever decrying the scandal of the evangelical mind with a lament that goes something like “What about all the poor saps out there whose only apologetic is chanting ‘I Know That I Know That I Know?’”
But I got over it. They’re little girls.
Today (Day 3), my daughter answered the altar call. Her VBS teacher told my wife that she became a Christian today!
Next week her mother and I will have been her parents for six years. This VBS teacher got the job done in less time than it took for Jesus to rise from the grave. Either this teacher is really good or we’re really dropping the ball at home. Remind me to tell the elders at church that our children’s program needs an overhaul: all that God-centered, Bible-teaching, fruit-bearing, life-changing stuff just can’t hold a candle to “just pray the prayer and get it over with.”
On the other hand, my four-year-old didn’t come forward. I suspect–indeed, I hope–she had questions that she never had an opportunity to ask. (If there was ever any doubt that she inherited her disposition from me, wonder no more.) “Why didn’t you come up front?” big sister asks.
My wife jumped in. “Well, when you went up front, what did that mean?” (This confirms that buying my wife an MP3 player and loading it up with Stand to Reason podcasts was one of the better investments I’ve made in the spiritual life of my family.)
The response was priceless and will echo in my memory forever:
“I forgot.”
This little girl can tell me (in six-year-old terms) all about the deity of Christ, his substitutionary atonement, the depravity of man, the sovereignty and glory of God, the reality of heaven and hell, salvation through grace, and even drew a picture recently and gave it the title God’s Blood Represents Love (I’m not kidding!), but she cannot remember what the altar call meant!
It’s not that she forgot, of course — it never meant anything in the first place. It’s what her teacher wanted, and it’s what all the other kids were doing.
When I get home tonight, by God’s grace, I’ll explain to my four-year-old that yes, in fact, it was weird, and no, she’s not weird for having questions.
And by God’s further grace, I’ll explain to my six-year-old that no, in fact, the Gospel is not an infomercial.
LOL! Sweet.
Let the de-programming begin!
You sending them back next year?
(smile)
A great story - thanks for sharing it.
A few more details came to light when I got home…
My four-year-old said she didn’t come forward because of “the man who came out of the ceiling.” I asked for clarification. Apparently the evangelist slid down a rope from the ceiling to the stage. No word on whether this was a zipline, a Tarzan vine, or a Tom Cruise-Mission Impossible-sort of thing.
I asked why that made her stay put. “Because it’s hard to think of,” she said. “Why did the man come out of the ceiling?”
Good question, sweetheart.
I went on to give her the Bad News that makes the Good News good. It’s still sinking in. I’m not sure if I’ll outdo the VBS repentance speed record, though.
Later, my six-year-old told me that she and two other girls went down front together. “Like a choo-choo train,” she said.
It just keeps getting better, doesn’t it?
The good news is that she’s quite clear that she’s a Christian if she trusts Jesus, not because of a prayer or an altar call. If there’s any “damage” from this experience, it will be because the Gospel of Christ and the glory of God have been cheapened. Time will tell.
Assuming this is a southern baptist church, you do know her name and converstion date are on a list going to the Southern Baptist Convention to document all the souls they’ve “won” this year?
Forget the Book of Life, I’m on the SBC list, baby!
Hugh,
Reading about your daughter led me to think about my own life, how I was saved, what I understood then, what I understand now, when my name was written in the Lamb’s Book never to be expunged, when I knew I was saved … when God knew I was saved. It all becomes complex and leads me to one conclusion – I do not understand all that I believe. Hopefully I will grow in understanding without wavering in belief. Perhaps some of you who are more knowledgeable and bright than I can explain.
A little history:
I can not remember a time in my life that I did not completely believe that Christ is the Son of God, but for the first 40+ years of my life, I put my faith in, at various times, my church, myself, my works, others, etc. …I was not saved.
For several years I had been dating a woman after my first marriage ended. She was and is a believer. She witnessed to me, even took me to a very evangelical church…
I ran because at that time my faith was in the doctrine of Congregationalism (whatever that meant because I clearly did not know.)
Finally I went with her to the chapel at Walter Reed. This was during the Gulf war, and she worked there.
The Chaplain was a graduate of Dallas Theological. It happened to be Communion Sunday. The Chaplain never gave a communion that he did not also include a salvation message and “sinner’s prayer.” He said something about communion being available to all, but you had to belong to Christ. He said that anyone who did not belong to Christ could take communion today by praying with him a simple prayer to belong to Christ. That day I prayed that prayer and had communion for the first time in 20 years. Although I understood the prayer had some religious significance, and I did not pray lightly, immediately after the service, I could not have told you what the exact words of the prayer were, what it meant or anything else about it, but I did know that I felt different. I promptly forgot about this event.
About a year and a half later, the woman I had been dating and I were married. We were on the first Sunday of our marriage in Stockbridge, Mass. I thought we should go to the First Congregational Church of Stockbridge – in my mind a real! church. It was everything I thought it should be – quintessential Norman Rockwell, New England, Church of the Pilgrims. Even the plaque on the wall that noted Jonathan Edwards was the second pastor of the church. It was great! – I was home again, the church of my upbringing. Then the pastor began the service saying, “Let us pray – Dear Father Mother God.”
I was stunned and wanted to crawl under a pew. This was how the Lord showed me that what I was still putting my faith in was completely false. I don’t know why I knew that because I still bought in to the idea that Evangelicals were dumb and easily led.
I then began seeking.
Several months later, we had some Evangelical friends who wanted to go to see a presentation of “Heaven’s Gates & Hell’s Flames.” We were going to go with them. I clearly remember that afternoon thinking, “They will probably have an alter call. If they do, I will go forward.” They did, and I did – with tears in my eyes and a small understanding, at age 45, I “gave my life to the Lord.” This time I knew it.
About 5 months later, I had read the entire Bible for the first time, and we began going to Bethel Grove where we met you, Hugh. At Bethel Grove I began my walk of understanding. I am still seeking to understand everything I believe.
Questions:
When was I really saved?
Back when at Walter Reed I prayed a prayer, the words of which I understood but not the meaning?
Before the beginning of time when God knew I was/would be His?
Back in Sunday School at age 8- when I learned in my heart that God was not my mother?
When I prayed at a “scared straight” presentation of Heaven’s Gates & Hell’s Flames and knew the first time for myself that I was “saved”?
My point, Hugh, is that understanding of being saved is really not important at the time of being saved. After all, the instant before we are saved, we have the mind of an unregenerate sinner and cannot understand anyway.
If what happened with your daughter is important to her, it is important. It may be years before she understands it with the depth that you do. Praise the Lord, she is saved whether at Bible Camp or years before or before the beginning of time. Does it really matter to God? Does it really matter to you? Does it really matter for her?
All the best! Many blessings to you and your family,
Doug
I appreciate your comments Doug. One of the critiques that those who are opposed to reformed thinking have is that “we” are too intellectuall, cold, and rigid. While I think that is essential (maybe not the cold part) when it comes to truth and doctrine, it is not so critical when it comes to methods of salvation-so long as the gospel (and man’s condition) was clearly laid out in the presentation.
As I was sarcastically recounting this blog’s story to my wife and a few friends, she (thankfully) called me on my attitude towards this event in your daughter’s life by reminding me that it was at a VBS where she heard the gospel and repented of her sins and DID become a Christian.
While I’m with you, Hugh, and am skeptical of altar calls, especially emotinally charged ones geared to kids, let’s not discount the fact that this may be a real profession of faith-if not your daughter this time, then maybe one of her friends that joined her. Either way, it is our duty to continue to present the gospel to our kids even after thier professions to ensure that they truly understand the magnitude of their sin and what our Father and His Son have done to make that salvation available.
Thanks Pat, I’ve likewise been reminded recently to be on my guard against an over-critical spirit. The Lord himself said that it’s worth putting up with some weeds so we don’t upset the tender wheat that’s growing.
Doug–thanks for jumping in. My aim was not to stress the importance of understanding salvation and various rarefied points of theology, soteriology, Christology, and other bigwordologies. While those things are important, they are logically subsequent.
I’ve got more to say than I care to publish in a comment… watch for my next post.
To me the point is not so much whether or not someone can come to faith through an alter call, but that it trivializes the gospel when put into contrast with biblical parenting (a la Deuteronomy 6).
Hugh and Krista have been teaching their kids about God and proclaiming the gospel since they were born. To have even a well-meaning VBS teacher assess that it was the alter call at which the child stepped out of darkness and into the light of Christ is absurd.
I agree that slamming on the folks involved here is not the right answer, either. And I don’t think Hugh was doing that. But there is an approach to the gospel, a way of thinking, that must be confronted and refuted. I think we need to pray for the leaders of churches like this one.
We also need to pray for the parents of the many kids who were in attendance for whom that alter call was the clearest presentation of the gospel they have heard. That is truly a tragic situation.
[...] My last post (I Forgot That I Know That I Know) opened the door to some discussion about altar calls. [...]